# DTD 198
This is the Drive Time Debrief, episode 198.
Hey guys. Welcome back to the podcast. I'm Amanda. I'm Laura. I'm Kendra. And we are wrapping up 2025, starting 2026. And so it is a good time to have deeper thoughts than usual. It's one of those times where it's like, this is a good time to reassess. So one thing that is really hard about working in emergency medicine specifically is when there is a sudden death and nobody's expecting it. That is really unsettling for everyone involved, including the doc who goes home and brains just do not like that. And after decades in medicine, you learn how fast life goes and medicine itself is the kind of job that can overtake your life if you aren't very strict about your boundaries and it's easy to lose yourself in overloaded to-do lists, tasks that you've been given that maybe don't mean as much to you.
And so as gold star earning professionals, we're great at getting A pluses. We're great at getting gold stars, and sometimes that leads us to living a life where we are constantly chasing external validation or trying to prove our worth. Sometimes it leads to over-functioning at our own expense. And is that really how you want to live? If so, great, then you don't even need to listen to this episode. But if you don't wanna live that way, how do you recalibrate? And how do you choose your focus?
Today we're gonna focus on the two most important people that you need to make proud. And it turns out it's not your parents, it's not your spouse, it's not even your kids. It's not your friends. It's definitely not your boss. But if you can make these two people proud, you really are onto something. You're nailing life in a way that most people never approach. And so who are these two people?
There is a quote that's widely attributed to David Perell. Here's the quote: "Make two people proud. Your 8-year-old self and your 80-year-old self." And he's not the first person to have sentiments about living a life that honors your past and your future. But that is a really succinct wayâmake two people proud, your 8-year-old self and your 80-year-old self.
Yeah, that's really good. It's a good reflection anyways, to help put in perspective why we talk about honoring yourself, having your own back, starting to do things that really are in alignment with your values because when you start to get that perspective, you start to reconnect with that 8-year-old self. What made you curious? You were playful and you were courageous for no reason other than sometimes ignorance is bliss. So you would just try things and then you were like, "Oh, I'm not doing that again." But it's interesting to really sit back and wonder like, "Okay, what does that mean to make the 80 and 8-year-old self proud?"
Well, I'm gonna talk about the 8-year-old you and just like I tried to paint a picture. You know, think about that fearless 8-year-old that jumped on the bike, that went 90 to nothing. You couldn't wait to get to your friend's house, or you couldn't wait to meet up with everyone. I lived in a neighborhood where all the kids were, you know, we had all grades, all ages, but it was packed with kids and at any given time, any cul-de-sac or any neighborhood, you know, house was busting at the seams with kids just riding bikes, skateboards, scooters, whatever. You were just all gathered all the time and we were full of wonder. We were curious. We loved to play. We loved to learn. We were exploring new areas. Like I said, we had the courage to try new things, partly because we were ignorant, but also partly because we just hadn't figured it out yet and it seemed exciting.
There was not a lot of pretense, there was not a lot of judgment or wondering what anybody thought of you. It was like, "Hey gang, let's go." Right? I think about the Goonies, I think about Breakfast Club, like I think about all these movies that I love because it was all about the adventure. It was all about a gang of pals that were in it to win it. And that is what really culminated in that foundation, I believe today, why I made decisions to be in certain clubs in high school, then join a sorority in college. Like I was all about the team, the community, and I'm sure it played a huge role into me picking emergency medicine, just knowing that I would always be with a gang, like a crew, a team, whatever you wanna say.
When I'm a part of a game, when I'm a part of a team and we accomplish things together, that is how I feel cared for. That allows for that collaborative spirit, like collaborating with someone, coming up with something together as a teamâyou kind of forget everything else. You forget the metrics. You forget your inbox, you just wanna be a part of a community, a part of a team. You know, Amanda and I play pickleball on Tuesdays, and that's like our pickleball squad. Like we are in it to win it. You do something you enjoy, you're a part of that team or that squad, and it really brings that energy back to the bedside. You forget how draining sometimes taking care of people is and you just get filled up and then you can bring that back to the bedside.
So how do we relate this practically? How do we decide to make a change or reflect on this, and then engage in a practice that honors your 8-year-old self? Well look at your schedule this week. Just take a look. What is on your schedule this week that would honor an 8-year-old self? Are you playing? Like do you have any free time to play with your kids, to go out and play pickleball, to go out and paint or do something that you love even for 30 minutes? Is there downtime to just watch something funny? I live in a bachelor pad now 'cause my daughter moved out and they always wanna pick movies that are so intense and something with history or guns and army and like champions and like coming out on top. But it usually means like killing all the bad guys. And I wanna pick the movie that I nearly wet my pants. I'm laughing so hard the whole time, like I definitely find myself drawn to a hilarious movie. I don't laugh enough, and that is definitely aligned with my values. I love to laugh, so I'm definitely gonna pick the movie. So I usually get outvoted now, but then when I'm reunited with my daughter, we usually tend to go for the ones where we laugh hysterically. Now if my son and I, he also loves to laugh, so he will pick that. But I will say that most of the times I'm getting outvoted.
Can I share a little ritual we have at our bachelor pad? Oh yeah. It's just really like 10, 20 minutesâI watch Daily Dose of Internet with my kids, and if you haven't watched Daily Dose of Internet, it's just like some anonymous YouTuber has made himself a billionaire probably by just compiling a bunch of like crazy, like "why didn't this" crazy? Like just the craziest like most hilarious or heartwarming, amazing things. Just like 10 minutes of it's is totally lovely and accesses that playful part.
I love that. I love that. I always think Kendra of a partner that we had that interviewed at our shop and he had been working like 28 shifts a month, and we were like, "What?" So what do youâit was crazy. It was the worst I've ever seen. And I remember asking him like, "Well what do you like to do?" He's like, "I don't, I don't remember." We gotta get a dose of 8-year-old. We definitely need to get back into that 8-year-old stat.
So these are great examples. I mean, it doesn't take a lot of time. It doesn't, but it's important, you know, trying something new. I mean, really trying something new allows you to tap into that curious, new, adventurous 8-year-old. And then how much more proud are you of just trying? I can't believe some of the things that I do now that I just try and I really reflect. I'm like, "Good for you. Way to try." Like it went a little, a little cringey, but hey, I tried it and that is something to be proud of. And, you know, it's not about trying something new and then being perfect at it. Like you are the gold medal winner swimmer. Like, just jump in the pool. Like, just do it and be proud of yourself for doing that. It's more than that.
And then, you know, also we talk about that inner critic, so catch yourself. I mean, would you speak to your 8-year-old self the way sometimes you do if you do try something new and you fall flat on your face, or if you get the guts to start a business or write a book or do something you've always dreamed of? Catch yourself. Be aware of how you're talking to yourself. It's gonna take a while. It's gonna be clumsy and it's gonna be kind of cringey at times. But honestly that's the fun part 'cause you can look back and be like, "Oh my gosh, that was crazy, but look where I am today." So give yourself grace. Allow yourself to feel loved in the process. If no one else is gonna love on you, love on yourself, honor yourself, that you have the guts to do that.
And you know, that's like one of the things we talk about, that self integrity, having your own back. And not only that, but realizing that if you can remember a situation when you were that 8-year-old self, even in school, learning new things, everyone was learning. You remember that commonality, that common humanity that we talk about, that Dr. Neff says that everybody does something new and everybody messes up, falls down, trips up, whatever. And we all survived. We're all here to tell about it. We're all here to tell the story and hopefully have a laugh. So now Laura's gonna help us look at the other side of the spectrum and the person who will be telling your life story.
Yeah. And that's the 80-year-old you. I love that we're talking about this. I just was talking about this with a client. She was commenting on how you hit a certain point in life and you see wrinkles or things that are bothering you and you're not so sure what you wanna do about it. If you wanna do anything and you know, sometimes we can let that stuff affect us in a bigger way than we really want it to. And so we just started talking about it. I'm like, "Well, think 30 years down the road, like wouldn't your 80-year-old self think of how you look and how you're operating in life. Like she thinks you're killing it and that you're totally hot. So just remember her." And maybe cut yourself a little bit more slack than you do.
That 80-year-old version of you is going to be looking at your relationships. They're gonna look at the impact you've had in your life, the legacy. They are going to be really happy if you're lifting weights now, they're gonna be really happy if you've taken care of your health. And these are the things that are important. The other stupid stuff, like 99% of the stuff that we worry about, that 80-year-old version is just not going to care about, not gonna care about what people think of you unless you showed up in some way that wasn't who you want to be. They don't care what you look like. They care about relationships, legacy, and health.
And so I want you to just kind of think about yourself at that age. Maybe things are quieter, most likely they are, you've got a file of memories. What is really going to matter? And recently, I'm trying to remember if I heard it on a podcast or read it, but one of the greatest regrets people have as they age is apparently not retiring earlier. Like "We could have retired earlier. We had enough money to, and we just didn't." And so when we're 80, we're gonna know the value of time, probably in a different way than we know it now. Hopefully we have some understanding that that is the resource that's not renewable, and are we living life that way, knowing that time really is our most valuable asset.
What your 80-year-old self cares about, doesn't care about. They're gonna care about whether you lived bravely, you did the things that you knew you were called to do, or you knew you were inspired to do and were important to you, if you took care of yourself. If you had deep presence and connection with the people you loved, if you learned to listen deeply and hold space for those people that you love and have empathy for them, the 80-year-old self wants to see that. We did small acts of kindness that we took care of ourselves well and others. They wanna know that we did not hold ourselves back, that we took action when we knew that doing so would put good into the world. And not just good for ourselves, but good for others.
Our 80-year-old self is not gonna look kindly on fear-based living. It's not gonna look kindly on living for others and for the validation of other people. Our 80-year-old self wants to see that we decided who we wanted to be and we lived that out. 80-year-old self doesn't care about a merit badge from somebody else. Doesn't care about the people who doubted you but they do care about the times you went for it with bravery. They don't care about the parts where you came up a little short or failed. They see the failures as learning experiences and care more about how we responded to them.
Here's just a little story to illustrate and create some food for thought. Imagine a physician decides he's missed enough family moments. And we've had multiple clients that this has played out in one variety or another, and they make a decision. They decide to take a sabbatical, or they decide they're not going to bring charts home anymore. He decides he's gonna finish his charts at work before he goes home, or maybe he decides that there's a loved one that he's been alienated from and decides that he wants to reconcile with them.
Even now, if we're still working clinically, we can choose one boundary that can change the trajectory of the rest of our career and lives. The decision to not chart at home can change your life. It will give you more time with the people that you love, and it is doable. It is absolutely doable. Can I say that you will never have to chart at home again? No. I don't know your situation. I do know you can cut way back on it and probably get it to where you're not doingâI mean, I know this because I've gotten it down to where I've charted at home I think once in the last two years. So you definitely can do that, and that is life changing, to have that time back with the people that you care about and to do the things that are meaningful to you outside of work.
So here's an invitation to do a couple of small actions. One, just one non-negotiable thing that you know needs to be protected. Dinner, sleep, 10 minutes with each of your kids, a 20 minute reconnect with your partner at night. Choose one thing for a month and protect that. That's a start. And then start one habit that your future self will thank you for. If you're not exercising, you know, start with a five minute walk or doing a couple of pushups or a couple of yoga poses. If you haven't already automated your savings, do that. Call one old friend once a month to catch up. Choose one habit that your future self will thank you for.
So the two actions were protect one non-negotiableâdinner, sleep, time with loved ones, whatever you want. And the second one is start a habit that your future self will thank you for. So you've met the two judges, the 8 and the 80-year-old now. Let's put them on the same bench and see what happens.
Yeah, these questions are just good to consider from time to time. One thing I do wanna bring up is sometimes when we do exercises like this, there's a lot of regret that comes up, and that is not what this is about. Regret is not useful. It doesn't help the 8-year-old version of you. It doesn't help the 80-year-old version of you. But what is useful is, "Hey, I think I'd like to do this a little better for phase two of my life or phase three of my life, or whatever it is." Focusing on how you did it wrong is only useful if you were going to turn it around into something positive of "Here's how I'd like to do it better from here on out." That's actionable. That's useful. That keeps you future focused instead of contaminating your present and your future with the past.
Yeah. I would say too, that if you did it wrong, it made complete sense to you why you did it wrong. Yes, yes. So have compassion on that. That's what this whole life is about is getting crap wrong and fixing it, by the way. Yeah. Like that's what it's all about. Right. Remember the 8-year-old version of you just went out there and did stuff and figured it out? It wasn't perfect the first time. You probably fell off the bike about 800 times before it started working. I remember one time I fell off the bike straight into a cactus, so that wasn't my best. But you know what? I got up. That's right. And I had that horrible Dorothy Hamill haircut and the neighbor ran out like, "What's wrong little boy?" This is a core like horrifying memory of myâI see a picture of this haircut. Oh gosh. It was, I don't know. My parents were all aboutâyeah, it was, yeah. Anywho? Yeah, you just got up and you kept going.
Okay, but here's the thing. We wanna integrate both points of view. It's not about competing, it's about bringing them into balance. And I'll just speak for myself, like in the midst of the most burnout that I ever had, it turns out I wasn't really considering either of those perspectives. I had gotten stuck in a "I should be on this committee because I should," you know, there was a lot of judgment. Like I just had a bunch of responsibilities and roles that I was doing to check a box rather than out of joy or setting my future self up to be better. It was just like making it through the day sort of situation and that I would offer, if you keep these two perspectives, the 8-year-old version and the 80-year-old version, it can sometimes snap you out of that or at least guide you into a better direction.
So consider how you're spending your time, if it would get a nod of approval from either the 80 or 8-year-old version of yourself. There's extremes, right? We're not upending your life and only living like an 8-year-old. There's a reason why you have developed some life skills beyond that, right? Consider, if all you're doing every day is just chasing novelty and hedonism that you would actually burn out because that's all you're doingâis chasing novelty and living, you know, for pleasure at the expense of your future self. What most of us are really good at is living at the expense of your present self, like delaying gratification indefinitely, and then you died and whoops, I ran out of time. Right. So it's a balance of both of those.
It's the same as, you know, medication likeâyou don't wanna overtreat or undertreat. There's a sweet spot in the middle and it's just gonna take some experimentation to figure out what that sweet spot is. So sometimes if there's a new decision to make, like you can ask yourself, "Will this make my 8-year-old self smile? Will it let the 80-year-old version of myself rest easier?" If the answer is yes to both, then that could be a high priority for you. If it's a yes to just one of them, well then that goes on the list. But you can weigh like if you need to do it now, if you need to do it later, or is there a way to adjust it where it does benefit both of you? If it doesn't make the 80-year-old version of you any better and it's not lighting up the 8-year-old version of you either, maybe that gets yeeted off your list. You know, maybe that's a heck no for now. But you know what the heck yes for both? Pickleball. Well, that is true. That is true. It's fun. It's exercising all kinds of your brain. Like, don't even get me started. You're socializing. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
I think a lot of us go guns blazing at an unreasonable rate, so let's try some tiny things, just one, right? Let's just get on the ladder to where you wanna go. Sometimes we make it so hard we upend everything and it's just not realistic. So just consider some of these things to try in the next seven days. Would you wanna protect one evening for you to just read? Maybe even a fiction book. Would that be something that you would wanna do? Do you wanna protect a date night? Do you wanna leave work on time one time? Just do your charts badly but close them. Like, do you wanna feel what that feels like one time to go home and not drag any work home with you?
What would it be like if you forgave yourself for regrets you had in the past? You can't do a single thing about 'em at this point. All you can do is do better from here on out. What if you just set that burden down and did better in the future? What would that feel like?
Here's one thing that I'm talking to myself about is if you grew up in a critical environment, have you just adopted that voice yourself? And like all you've done is internalize that voice and you're doing it to yourself now 'cause that's optional. You can start to treat yourself like you should have been treated when you were an 8-year-old. Again, if you wouldn't talk to another 8-year-old like that, still not appropriate for you to talk to yourself that way.
Do one playful thing for no good reason at all. It's liberating. Just do it. We love the Alexander Heyne quote. I'm gonna butcher it, but "You often feel exhausted not because you've done too much, but you've done too little of what sparks a light in you." Just spark a light. Just try it. It's so amazing to do something outside of your job just for fun.
And then maybe for future self, figure out which subscriptions that you still are subscribed to and you're paying for and you're not using them. What if you switched that and auto invested that money instead? You obviously aren't gonna miss it 'cause you've been paying it the whole time. That's an idea to set up the future version of you. Lifting weights is probably gonna help future version of you. Having your finances set is gonna help future version of you. Repairing your relationships is gonna be something that the future version of you will never regret.
So tell one person that you love them or appreciate them. Take that time when you're thinking of it in your head. Just go ahead and send the text or go ahead and dial the number. We think it a lot, but a lot of times we don't follow through.
So just as we close, medicine asks a lot of us, that is a given. Totally get it. But if you give yourself these small permissions to play and to protect the future version of you, you'll begin to please these two very important people, the child who still believes in you, and the elder who is gonna look back and thank you and be so proud that you set them up for success.
Thanks for joining us today, friends. We hope you've enjoyed this episode and found this conversation so helpful. And the best way to support us is by leaving a review. It helps other physicians find us and it moves us up on the list. And we'd love to hear from you. Tell us what you've done this weekâone tiny thing to honor the 8 and 80-year-old versions of yourself, email it to us. Give us a shout at [email protected]. We love to read those live on the show and we love that you would engage that part of you. So follow us on the socials @TheWholePhysician. We would love to connect with you there.
And speaking of our podcast, before you go, we have created a Podcast Fast Track because we are quickly approaching 200 episodes, and that is a lot. So we have jam packed 10 episodes into a high yield gift pack for you. We believe that these were not just our most listened to episodes, but really the high yield ones to help you on your journey to the freedom from burnout. So go to www.thewholephysician.com/fasttrack T-R-A-C-K and discover your personalized path to wholeness and healing.
So thank you for spending time with us today and until next time, you are whole. You are a gift to medicine and the work you do matters.
