Laura: Hey guys. Welcome back to the podcast. This week we're sharing a special episode that we recorded when we were in Phoenix at the A C O E P Spring Seminar. Andy Little, host of EM Over Easy, was kind enough to invite us on his show, and so we're sharing that with you this week. We hope you have a great rest of your week. Take care and we will see you soon.
Andy: All right. Welcome, everybody, back to this episode of the EM Over Easy Podcast. I am your host, Andy Little, and I'm joined by three special guests. We are with the folks and the women behind the podcast DRIVE TIME DEBRIEF with The Whole Physician- and the three founders- and the three minds behind The Whole Physician group. And I'm gonna let them introduce themselves before we get started.
Laura: Hey, I'm Laura Cazier. I'm an Emergency Physician in Huntsville, Alabama.
Amanda: I'm Amanda Dinsmore. I'm an Emergency Physician in Springfield, Missouri.
Kendra: I’m Dr. Kendra Morrison, and I am an Emergency Medicine Physician in Springfield, Missouri.
Andy: We're here because the three of you all went through a phase of your career where you did not wanna do this job anymore. So let's walk back 18 months, ‘cause that's when your company was founded, and how did you get to the point that you wanted to solve the problem that you found yourself in?
Laura: So, leaving emergency medicine. For me, this was more than 10 years ago that I actually left for a couple of years completely- without any concern that I might never be able to go back because that was how burned out I was. But coming back into emergency medicine and being able to find mindset tools that help me not only endure it, but actually love it again, made me realize that this is something that anyone can do. Anyone can use these tools to help themselves adapt and just be happier, not only in their practice of medicine, but in their lives. And so…
Amanda and I trained together in residency at Wake Forest. And she- I saw her talking on Facebook about like doing an Integrative Medicine, and then she was thinking about going to Life Coach School. Which I had always thought, man, life coaches. That sounds so hokey.
Andy: You say life coach and there's this whole like negative connotation with it, like
Laura: Yes.
Andy: Yes. Oh, so you can't get your act together by yourself.
Laura: Right, exactly. Kind of like the opposite of how we’re are trained to be. But I had listened to Katrina Ubell for probably over a year. She's a pediatrician who left, actually, pediatrics to become a life coach for doctors who wanted to lose weight. And listening to her and the different approach she had to just everything. I was fascinated. I was a psychology major in college, and I just thought, wow. This sounds really, really interesting. So Amanda and I spoke back and forth, and we both decided to certify as coaches at the same time. And then when we finished, we thought we have to bring this to our EM colleagues. They need and deserve this more than any group of people we can imagine.
Amanda: My story also started far beyond. It makes me laugh when people are like, “oh yeah cause COVID. That's why everyone's so…” No. We were way before. Actually, I handled COVID quite well, in my own opinion, because I already had these tools. But we're all married to other physicians. I had small children. I was trying to juggle the small children, work nights so that we didn't need a nanny, and I just found myself…the only tools I knew how to work in the ER, the only thing that I had been equipped with was keep your head down. Keep working. A lot of us tend to equate our worth with our performance. And you know, we're all great students. You can see how that happens, how that gets reinforced, because we're all good at what we do. I tend to err on the side of perfectionism, which doesn't serve us in the ER.
Some of our other coach colleagues are in different specialties, and they're like, I don't understand how you would be an ER physician and be a perfectionist. I was like, you would think that because it doesn't make any sense. However, everyone I know has that tendency. So it doesn't take very many misses or near misses to where I was just dreading going to work. I had just saw everything going badly, and it was all my fault- although it never was. But anyway, I started getting psychosomatic symptoms at work, which was only horrifying to me. So I'd put my head down and work harder. But anyway, I had a one weekend where it was probably from the Lord, I don't know, but it was a series of plagues. Like it really occurred to me at the end of the weekend, like, I don't think the beatings are gonna stop until I start changing something.
So once my mind was made up, I'm going to do something else. All of a sudden- my mom was a massage therapist. We had grown up in kind of alternative kind of stuff, so I saw an advertisement for Integrative Medicine. It's the first time I've ever gone off script, which is scary for me. I did everything by the book, straight out of high school, to college, to med school, to residency. And I just took a chance, and everybody at work was like, that's expensive. I'm like, well, I spent more on my car. You know, and this is for me. For the first time it was something for me.
And one of the big tenets of Integrative Medicine is you don't get to just tell people what they need to do for themselves. You actually have to walk the walk yourself. And I was like, I would never recommend somebody live my life, you know?
Andy: No.
Amanda: Like I don't take care of myself at all. So that was the start. And then I also had been listening to Katrina Ubell and some other physician coaches. Which this is new in medicine, but there are some people out there who you could listen to podcasts. I was like, this makes so much sense. And so my particular Integrative Medicine training would not let me train as a coach until I finish. I wanted to do it in conjunction. So I went to Life Coach School with Laura. And then it just, um, like we have to. I see myself in the people that I coach like so much. Now, I know that I did not have to suffer, but nobody taught me that I was allowed to think any other way than what. You know, you just go through med school and residency with what you come with from your family of origin.
Andy: Mm-hmm.
Amanda: Not always is that…
Andy: Not always the best tools. Not always the best mechanisms, yeah.
Amanda: No, no. And that and, be perfect always. Don't be human. Never treat yourself as if you’re a human, that's a sign of weakness. It just didn't serve me. It was giving me psychosomatic symptoms. So. Anyway, that was my story, and nothing makes me happier than helping our people. If we can save one person the suffering that I had inflicted on myself, that's kind of the goal.
Kendra: So I work at the same shop as Amanda. And so that's kind of how we met. And there was a point, yes, this was way before COVID, that there was something like- the burnout or moral injury was very insidious onset. ‘Cause you just kind of power through. Just like Amanda said, there's a lot of tools that make us great ER physicians that also strip us of humanity. And make us feel like we have some sort of superhuman powers. But really it was kind of like, I felt like a survival of the fittest, and maybe I was getting ready to go down, like go to ground.
So I had to make some decisions and I kind of blamed it on some patient care issues that I saw in my shop. And I kind of drew a line in the sand, and as soon as that was crossed, I handed in my resignation. It was a very tumultuous time because we had a great group. We really did, we were the, one of the strongest groups with the lowest turnover at our shop. And I mean, we were like 35, 40 strong with like a solid group. And so that's really what kept me, honestly from not resigning like six months before that. So, when I resigned, that was also kind of like a punch in the gut because I was asking all these questions like, you gotta be kidding. I worked all this time. And you know, you asked the same questions like, why did I just go through all this? Why'd I sacrifice all this? Why am I here? Why? So you ask all these questions and honestly, looking back, I was really asking wrong questions.
But it wasn't until I, Amanda, when she started looking at the Integrative Medicine fellowship. We were meeting, you know, for lunch here and there, like coming up with some like alternative things. And being a DO, a lot of the Integrative Medicine curriculum like we got in our training. So I was like, do I need to do the whole Integrative Medicine fellowship? Like I got this a lot in our DO training. And so then, Amanda started talking about coaching school and then the Integrative Medicine program that she went through has a health and wellness coaching program. And that was through the University of Arizona. So then that's the one I enrolled in and got certified as coach.
But in the meantime, about six months before I stepped back into the ED. And what was interesting is as I was preparing, I really had this just nagging feeling. I really never wanted to leave EM. I love the ED, like it does actually light me up, and I love the work we do. I love my job. So it was very conflicted that whole time. But as time went on, I got coached. Then going through coaching training, there's just those small things, those little pivots that, that we're actually used to doing as an ER doc that we just, we just had to take control. And there was something about getting empowered and just kind of getting my happy back, that my same shop that we worked at actually approached me like six months later, and I came back to EM in a leadership position. Which never in a million years would I have thought. Hence, and this was all before Covid. And so I felt like my journey consisted of like a reawakening, never lost my passion for EM, but I was losing myself.
And so when I say it's a reawakening, it's actually the first time discovering myself. Because there was a lot of questions that was asked of me during coaching that I thought I knew the answer to. But when I went to go, like, jot down on the worksheets or whatever, my pin didn't move. Like, including what makes you happy? And I was like, oh, I know this. And I go to write down and I can't put pen to paper. I'm like, how do I not know? Like it was almost just like a re-identification, like, oh my gosh, like I'm becoming aware and then it's like a rediscovery. So in the process, as you know, we all kind of started just getting our own certification and going out there and just realizing that not only do we need this for our colleagues who are dropping like flies (‘cause at the time when I left medicine, 10 of us actually resigned in a span of two months). So it was just really devastating.
But secondly, I also started- the med school I went to was Kansas City University. And we, they had built an affiliate campus in Joplin. And they had reached out and said, we are looking for alumni to help the adjunct faculty. So I jumped on that because I have always wanted to have a residency at our shop. So I started going down there, and I still do that. I'm adjunct faculty there. And so I was starting to see some of the things I discovered. You know, as soon as med students, like. So then the passion even grew. Cause I was like, we even have to get this in the residencies, and we have to get this into med schools.
Amanda: What fuels me is that professional athletes get this sort of mindset training. C-suite executives get this sort of mindset training. But they throw us into medicine with nothing. And of all the people who are witnessing people's worst days on earth and experiencing the vicarious trauma that comes with that, with nothing.
Andy: So without getting too personal, I will say that I recently started seeing some counseling services offered through my hospital. And in one of those sessions, they talked about what was one of the more difficult tasks that I had to deal with at work. And so I went through a recent case that was, had a bad outcome. A patient died. And it was amazing how at the end of it I said, well, what can we really learn from this? And the counselor was stumped because although she had helped other healthcare providers, she had never helped somebody who had to deal with death at this level before. And so at the end of that session again, I was like, what are we doing for next time? And they said, well, I'm gonna go do some homework and I'll come back to you with an answer. And that was a little frustrating.
Laura: They had to talk to a physician coach.
Amanda: Well, that's the thing.
Kendra: The therapist had to consult the physician coach.
Amanda: Well, you're not the only story. Like I love my therapist, but when I say I might have contributed to somebody's death, they stare at me like a deer in the headlights. I'm like, I know exactly what you are thinking because I've been there, and I've worked through it. And what you're going through, I, we are gonna stop it right now because I tortured myself.
Laura: Mm-hmm. The thing I like to liken it to is when veterans come back from war, they wanna talk to other veterans. And that is, That's the way…
Andy: Mm-hmm.
Laura: …doctors are. Like, I think certainly counselors are super helpful. But it's helpful to be able to talk to someone who knows exactly what you're talking about.
Andy: Yeah. So the question is, it sounds like everybody left medicine for a period of time.
Amanda: I did not. In fact, when Kendra walked out, I was like, are we allowed to do that?
Andy: She's forgotten about her moral obligation to patients.
Kendra: Yeah, no, I just was like deuces.
Amanda: I, I'd never seen anyone stick up for themselves before. And so that's me. We call it buffering, where you numb out, where you just keep your head down, where you keep going. And it was manifesting with hives at work and just weird stuff like that. And, and I had enough insight to be like, oh my God, are you serious? Like, are you, I can't handle this and I'm having, you know, symptoms. Like, God forbid I'm even weaker than I thought. Like, so I would just, do you think I ever did anything about it? No. I brought Bena, not Benadryl. That knocks me out. That would take Zyrtec before work. You know? I mean, how. I tell this story now, like I'm kind of sad that I didn't even consider myself enough to do anything other than keep my head down and work harder. Like that's, I'm so sad for that version.
Andy: But as you mentioned, those are the coping mechanisms most people are given in residency is keep working, it'll figure itself out. Yes. And that works for really nothing. Yeah. Actually I haven't found a disease that’s the remedy for.
Kendra: No, there's definitely a halflife to that. Yeah. Because that's where I found myself.
Amanda: But the end of the story is all three of us are working clinically now. In so much a better mind space. And yes, it is painful out there. I am never gonna tell you that it's not. There is pain, that's part of the human condition. But looking back objectively at how I was treating myself and how I didn't know better coping mechanisms, I could have been in a lot better state for the majority of my career.
Andy: So for the ones who left and then came back, what brought you back?
Laura: I love the emergency department. I love it. I love being able to meet people at their worst and offer some relief to them. I love the puzzle aspect of our profession that we get to be the first on scene and figure out what's going on and, and help fix it. I just love it. And I knew that, I knew I didn't feel right leaving on those terms. And it doesn't mean that we have to stay in emergency medicine forever, but, but if we decide to leave, leaving with, with that love for the specialty and knowing that we've got other things to do is such a better place than leaving because you hate it or because you are hating your life because of what it's doing to you and to your health. That is, I think that to me was, is the biggest thing is like, I, I knew that it would nag me the rest of my life if I, if that were the end of that story. Because I do love it.
Amanda: It's, yeah, the messages leave because you want to, not because you feel like you have to. But we all made changes too though.
Andy: Well, and my next question is, so, but when you came back, I imagine you approach everything differently.
Laura: Yes.
Andy: What are the big take homes for you? You were gone. You said, no I still love bedside medicine. I love taking care of patients. What coping mechanisms did you come back with? Or what maybe bumpers did you put up to where you won't get back where you were before.
Laura: There's so many things, but the biggest piece is knowing my own value and knowing what is in my control and what is not in my control, and always having my own back. I always know that I show up and do the very best job I can do. And I will never, ever punish myself for things that happen that are out of my control. And if I make a mistake, I'll say, okay, how can I avoid that in the future? But I am never going to rail on myself ever again.
Andy: It's funny that you bring that up cuz I feel like a lot of what we deal with in medicine is, you know, the horrific things that we deal with. Again, we're taught to work our way through it. And then as you work back and diagnose it, there is a lot of that where we take a lot of the blame for things that aren't our fault. And I dunno if you guys are movie watchers or not, but in the movie Good Will Hunting, which I hadn't seen until like six months ago, but there's that scene where Robin Williams is with Matt Damon and he just says, it's not your fault. And he says it like 15 times and he finally, and, but, but
Amanda: Don't ‘cause I'll start crying.
Andy: But there is some of that in what we do to where you have to look in the mirror and be like, that wasn't your fault. Like that, that person was gonna pass away. That terrible thing was gonna happen. You stood basically in the way of that happening. But reminding yourselves that like this, this was not our thing to fix. It wasn't our, you know, problem to solve. But medicine hasn't prepared us for that. We just carry around with like, well, that was my fault.
Laura: Well, but even if it is your fault, even if it is your fault, that does not detract from your value. As a human being, as a physician. Like we all make mistakes and that is, I think this shame-based culture that we've been brought up in is everybody thinks nobody else makes a mistake. And it's, it's a lie. And so even if it is, even if it is your fault, you are still an amazing human being for doing what you're doing.
Kendra: Yeah. I think one of the things that was really impressed upon me. And it, and it actually never really set- like I didn't get the full comprehension of it until I went through coaching. But one of my attendings in training was putting in perspective, like, you know, I had a bad case and the patient died and they were near my age. Actually it was a worker at our hospital. So I knew her and she came in and it was a bad outcome. And he's like, so earlier today, you know, somebody lived and you caught something, and they got admitted and job well done. Tonight, you're ending your shift with someone, that happened, and that was that outcome. You can't take credit for either. So just as the one that you caught, diagnosed and got to the unit; and just like her, this was her last day, she breathed her last. You can't take credit for either. So I think that really puts in perspective how much we don't have control over either situation. You know, we feel great when we like kind of back into a diagnosis or nail it or something. We get the treatment on board and the sepsis bundle and you know, document and everything like that.
But even if we did do all that, and that patient died, how do you still reconcile that? And that was something to me that was very impressionable. I've had cases where I've done every single thing: A, B, C, D, E, blah, blah, blah, and the patient still died, but I still did everything right. So, so that- until I really had the mindset where there is just so much out of our control that even when patients do good and even when they survive or there's, you know, you feel like the hero. We really can't take credit for that. Just as much as we can't take, we can't punish ourselves for the bad outcomes or the mistakes or anything. Because we don't know how much of this really was in within our control. So that kind of just helped me take into perspective both sides of the spectrum. And as we set up our shop, we were kind of an offsite COVID, like respiratory care center.
And you know, as COVID even came, like, it just helped me go into that mindset knowing that yes, I'm gonna do everything I can with the knowledge that I have today, knowing that really nobody knows what to do. But just using, you know, good clinical judgment and our awesome diagnostician skills and all of that. And I'm gonna do the best every day. And honestly, I mean, COVID was kind of like, you know, every day it was like, bring it, bring it on. Like we've got this. I've been equipped, my team's been equipped, you know, no matter what happens, like we are showing up. We're making the difference for the patients that we take care of today on our shift.
Yes, there's still 50 in the waiting room. Yes, buses are coming in the front door, back door. Choppers are landing on this, you know, everywhere. But we are doing the most good for the patients that has been directed to our care for that shift. And so I think that helped too, to limit or maybe just mitigate that overwhelm that I used to feel a lot. Like, I gotta see 'em all, get 'em all back. Let's see 'em all. Let's see 'em all. So that was some of the things that helped me come back kind of better, faster, stronger. You know, was just like, okay, like this is, this is really how I should look at the situation, and this is really how we should show up to work every day.
Amanda: Yeah. I think one of the things that we look for in our train to look for now are thought errors. And it's funny because most of them plagued me throughout my career, but that's the, it's called the internal control fallacy- that somehow you're responsible for every sort of thing. Listen, I'm not responsible for the, for the staff shortage. I'm not responsible for how many patients show up in the waiting room. And it doesn't diminish the good that I'm doing for the people who I can see. It is. That's the essay, The Star Thrower, which I don't know if you've heard of or not. But the iteration is that, you know, even despite there's starfish all over for miles and miles and miles along the ocean, picking up that one and throwing it back into the ocean makes a difference for that one.
I'm not responsible for all the other stuff going on. But I can be a source of good, and that's really all the Universe needs from me. So that was eye-opening. We're all three spiritual people, but even for our non-spiritual clients, there is an awareness that they're not in charge of the Universe. If any of y'all are like, let me know because I have a list of requests, but it's just. That's outta my control. What I can control is how I show up and doing my best, and that's all that's required. And some days my best is not that good. I haven't slept well. I haven't, you know, there's things that go on because I'm still human. As bad as I don't want to be human, I still am. But what I can control is what I can control, and the rest is up to somebody else.
Andy: Yeah. It's interesting as you share your experience. Some people can come to this by themselves. And I imagine you're run into like partners or coworkers or people that you train with, and some people can inherently find this solution and find it pretty quickly. But I imagine, you know, that like most people struggle with this. And as somebody who works at a place where in the last, you know, COVID lead some people to leave, and I've had three coworkers, shorter careers than mine, younger than me, walk away from medicine. Listening to you guys talk. It's for most of the same reasons. And they went to go find it somewhere else.
And having caught up with a couple of them, they haven't found it yet. ‘Cause they're still in the shame mode where I, I'm not really worthy of finding a solution as what one of them said to me when we, we chatted a couple months ago. And I thought that was interesting that like, in our culture, it's the, well, because I opted out, I'm not worthy to come back. And it's like, who told you that?
Laura: Right.
Andy: You know…
Amanda: Shame gremlins tell you that.
Kendra: Yeah. The shame gremlins.
Andy: And when we talk about other industries, like how many other professionals, is it okay to take a six month sabbatical? Or I'm gonna step back for a year. And that's widely accepted, and it's encouraged. And in emergency medicine and medicine in general, it's, you're almost like a pariah for wanting to like take care of yourself for any amount of time, let alone for something extended.
Amanda: I was laughing. I went on a weekend with some high school friends, and one of my best friends is a real estate agent and she's killing it. And her boss though is like, why do you not have a coach yet? You could be going to the next level. And she's like, that's so funny. And I'm like, what's not funny. She's like, I always just tell myself, well, nobody's gonna die with my job. I'm like, there literally will be people that die on my job, and we've got no support. That's crazy. She's in trouble with her boss for not having support, and we literally are seeing people die and there's, it's just like…
Laura: It's not even offered. It's not even offered.
Andy: Well, and it's, I work in academics, and I can tell you that when we get struggling learners. And I say struggling learners, knowing that there's, when we get people help, there's the automatic shame and name within the group of: so I hear so-and-so's on the plan where they have to see a counselor. Can they really hack this job? And I'm like, yeah, they will be able to, because we're getting 'em help. Or you know…
Amanda: Don't you like your professional athletes who have their mindset game on point?
Andy: Yes. A hundred percent. Like I, I'd rather them see somebody every day of the week if they're good at their job, than go home and, you know, “fix it” by not sleeping and doing alcohol and doing drugs and doing other high risk activities that physicians like to get ourselves into, ruining our careers, ruining our lives. So, but there is this stigma like the second you get somebody help, it's just like, well, maybe they shouldn't be a doctor.
Kendra: That's a good thing about coaching. And one of the things that is available is physician coaching. Not only, like Laura said, are you able to talk with a peer, basically. But there's no EMR. There's nothing recorded. You don't declare it on your licensing.
Andy: Yeah. So when I get my new license, I don't have to declare that I saw a mental health counselor in the last 12 months.
Kendra: Correct.
Amanda: There's a new set of skills.
Kendra: It's loosely based on cognitive behavioral therapy, the kind of like formula or like what we learn, but it's not mental health anything. We are not professional. I mean, we sometimes feel like we're professional mental health, mental health professionals cuz of what we see in the ED. But we're not. This is not something you have to declare, not something you even have to tell anybody. Everything we talk about is confidential. It is basically using the tools that make you an amazing physician and taking 'em to the next level, pulling them out of you, realizing that we need to work on what serves you and what doesn't. And those things that don't serve you, how can we just, a little bit, tweak that to make it to where it serves you. There are some thoughts that we have that are, I'm okay with, that I didn't need to change because they're serving me fine. You keep those. It's the ones that are causing that, you know, extreme anxiety, the fear, the worthlessness, the lack of, you know, self-awareness, the buffering that we do, the all the things that really just, we need to take a step back and, and we're almost like that sounding board.
We can make you aware. And then once you become aware, man, that light bulb goes off and you're like, oh, and this and this and this. ‘Cause we meet with clients the first couple of times, it's a little clunky, but once you understand like what, where we're trying to go, the goals we're trying to set, I mean the clients come and they're like, oh, I recognize this. I recognized I did this, I did this, I did this. And man, as you kind of just live your life, you start to become more aware, and we're like, oh yeah, that's not serving me. I'm not showing up the way I really want to show up. So let me take that all the way back to, where's that coming from?
Amanda: So yeah, our industry is results driven. You love your results. Keep it. Like we're not gonna tell you what to do. We are not mentors, we're not sponsors. It's a choose your own adventure situation. But a lot of times you might notice like, this is really nagging me. Like I can't, I can't figure out why this is happening. That's where we bring the awareness and like, if you don't like your result, then let's figure out how to get the result that you do want.
Laura: Yeah. Coaching really is for everyone because we live in our brains, and especially as physicians, we are way up here. We don't really get outside of our own brains at all, and we believe our thoughts so much. Before, honestly, I did coach training, it never even occurred to me that some of my thoughts might not be true. But lots of the thoughts that we have are not objectively true. And having someone else say, hey, so you really think that you missing this, you know one thing makes you a horrible person. You think that that is an actual truth? Like if we asked other people, they would all agree? And so it's super helpful to have someone else help you examine your own thoughts and determine which are ones you actually wanna keep, and maybe help generate a new thought and a new belief about yourself so that you can get a new result.
Andy: It was interesting. I was talking with a friend who's a coach, coaches college sports. And we were talking about like work, and we were joking. He was like, oh, your, your job isn't that hard. And I was like, oh, well it's different. And uh, so we were…
Amanda: That used to be a big trigger for me.
Andy: And it was, used to be good for me too. And I was like, well, I mean, so we talked about, I said, well, what's. You’re a college coach- what's an acceptable win record for you? And he says, oh, if I win half my games, I know I can keep my job. And I was like, Hmm. That'd be like me only diagnosing half of the heart attacks, and I get to keep my job. And he goes, oh, they'd fired you. And I was like, okay. All right. So we went through like all like the high level stakes of the percentages we have to have. And in that conversation, he asked me if I had a coach, and I didn't at the time. And he said, but if physicians are required to have zero misses, we have to bat a thousand. Like how much would a professional athlete pay a coach? To where they never dropped a ball, never threw an interception, never missed a four foot putt, never didn't hit a home run. I mean, these people spend millions of dollars, large sums of their earnings so they can be at the best of their abilities. And if we get a coach, we're seen as somebody weird. And then most of us feel too afraid to do it because we're afraid of, you know, well, they might tell me I'm not good at my job, and the shame cycle will start again. When in reality it's probably should maybe be like mandatory.
Amanda: That's the hope. Is that just like a C-Suite exec who, I'm sorry, but are we not just as valuable if not more to society? Just like that comes with their job, our hope is that this gets built into every physician in a hospital or clinic or whatever. It just is necessary.
Kendra: And I think anyways, as ER physicians, I mean we honestly are the last great clinician, diagnosticians like we are still just like in the trenches. We have the best differential. I mean, we really do amazing work for a whole team. So why not make that first round draft pick that's gonna lead your whole team, be at the top of their game? Mind, body, spirit, soul. Like all aspects. Because really you are standing up, not only for yourself, but you lead a team every single day. So how much more does the ER physician need that, you know, that support, whatever you wanna call it. But just knowing that that ER doc is really like setting the stage, even for those subsequent physicians that take care of them. You know, there's just no one quite like us in the whole scheme of the whole process.
Andy: No there’s not. We're, we're very unique and we're uniquely positioned to probably have, probably have this be a part of our tool bag compared to other, other, other specialties. So I guess if I'm a listener for our show, how do I get ahold of the three of you?
Laura: Well, you can go to our website, which is thewholephysician.com. There is a little place where you can click. And if you wanna just try and meet with one of us as kind of a discovery call, we offer that for free. And just even that first discovery call, we usually will get into some issue that somebody wants to work on, and we can see relief immediately. People start feeling better. And that's part of why we love this so much is because people get such relief. And we feel the good that's happening. We love that. So that's where you can go there. You can listen to our podcast to kind of get to know us a little bit. And that's the DRIVE TIME DEBRIEF. You can find it on all the podcast apps. And that's it. Right?
Amanda: But also say, get on our newsletter list, because we frequently do free classes like the one that we just did. You wanna tell them the name?
Kendra: Oh, we just did like two days before coming here, our class was called, “What's the ICD-10 Code for Injury Sustained in a Dumpster Fire?” Which is…
Andy: The name alone sounds amazing.
Kendra: I mean, it was amazing…
Andy: When are you offering that again?
Kendra: So we have the replay. So if you go to our website even today, you can see, you can watch the replay.
Andy: That's awesome.
Kendra: It was fantastic. We are also on all the socials, and we like are your people. So #MemeMonday is just like solid. So every Monday, you know, we put the memes out there and, and you know, we try to just drop some nuggets, you know, along the way on the socials. And then on Thursdays is a new episode of our podcast drops. And also if you're on our email list, you'll get a little bit of rundown of what that podcast was with just a little bit of supplemental like goodness delivered right to your email.
Andy: That's awesome. Well, if you're listening to the show, please check out their website and their show, and we appreciate you guys hopping on.
Well, thank you so much for making it all the way to the end of this amazing conversation with the women from The Whole Physician. Don't forget, we are the official podcast for the American College of Osteopathic Emergency Physicians. Head on over to acoep.org today and learn about how you can be involved with this organization. And attend a live conference where you might get to see your entire EM Over Easy Crew at one of our mini live shows. Until then, don't forget to follow us on our social media, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram, and head on over to emovereasy.com today.
